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Icdedppul
Princess
Joined: 31 Dec 2006
Posts: 255
Location: Salt Lake City
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DarkMonkeyGirl
Hybrid
Joined: 09 Jan 2007
Posts: 60
Location: OOtah
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 Posted: Wed Jan 10, 2007 8:43 am Post subject: |
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Pssh that's not fair. A lot of people are mentally ill but they aren't a harm to themselves or society  It should be the families decision rather then a governments. |
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test badger
A snake, a snake, a scary scary snake
Joined: 31 Dec 2006
Posts: 224
Location: the lab (SLC Utah)
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| Posted: Wed Jan 10, 2007 4:23 pm Post subject: |
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Without knowing the details, I am not seeing anything initially that I would object to in this article, except for the use of the word "untreatable". We already have laws that address all of these things right here in Utah.
For someone to undergo extended "civil commitment" under UT mental health laws, that person must go before a "judge" in mental health court. They have representation by a lawyer. And they have an impartial panel which oversees this whole affair. Generally a person is only placed on c.c. if they've demonstrated that they pose a considerable risk to their own safety and/or that of others; also that circumstances suggest they are likely to continue to be a risk without compulsory treatment; also that they are not likely to demonstrate the kind of judgement needed to keep themselves in treatment or take the other steps necessary to keep from relapsing.
Let's say you have a guy with paranoid schizophrenia. He's stopped taking his medications, has been using methamphetamine, and started to believe his son is really a Russian spy sent to kill his father. So he tries to kill his son, first. Also, let's say he's had this illness for twenty years and has been repeating this pattern of going off meds, using drugs and dropping out of treatment for most of those years.
Or, let's say you have a woman with borderline personality disorder and major depression. She's also stopped taking meds, stopped going to support groups, and is angry at her family whom she feels hate her. She decides to cut on herself and accidentally hits an artery. Also, she's overdosed on Tylenol ten times in the past 6 mos, and each time her stomach was pumped and she was in the hospital for a few weeks.
For these folks, it's gonna be helpful for them to be accountable to someone else to stay on track. It's gonna help the rest of us, too, who live alongside them, and who (through taxes) pay their hospital bills.
Civilly committed people are not generally kept "locked up" for long periods of time in Utah, even if they are psychotic or self-injurious. Usually after a week or a month of hospitalization (or residential treatment) for an episode of potential harm (or actual harm), they are released back to the community, with some conditions. 1) They must continue to take the medications that helped them stabilize. 2) They must follow-up with their outpatient treatment team (and this could be, for example, a twice-a-month appointment). 3) They must agree to attend the next re-hearing, where the commitment will likely be dropped if they're following through. And 4) they must agree not to use drugs or alcohol (which make psychoses and mood disorders worse, and are dangerous to use while on meds). That's not too tough for most people.
Whew! Okay, that's my rant. Also, that's just my opinion.  |
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Little Linds
Hybrid
Joined: 31 Dec 2006
Posts: 76
Location: Salt Lake City
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| Posted: Wed Jan 10, 2007 7:13 pm Post subject: |
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| I don't think that just because you are "unfit for society" based on someone else's definition you should be locked up. I think if you know you need help, it should be available to you by choice. |
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Lyddia
Space Cowboy
Joined: 31 Dec 2006
Posts: 162
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| Posted: Thu Jan 11, 2007 5:11 am Post subject: |
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Wow, this is one that hits close to my heart. I must say I would agree that if someone refuses to take their meds and could harm someone because of this action, they should be locked up. But in the USA there isn’t any money for Mental Health, so this would never happen here!
I lived through the Triad shooting… My co-worker wasn’t so lucky, she was shot in the head and died 10 days later in the ICU unit. Her child has grown up never knowing her mother all because one Paranoid Schizophrenic decided to stop taking her meds!
This Paranoid Schizophrenic, who decided to stop taking her meds, was allowed to purchase a handgun and TONS of ammo. Even though she had a record and had gone after someone with a knife at KBER radio less than a year before, she was still allowed to purchase a handgun!
I am lucky not to be plagued with this illness and I do feel sorry for those who are. I think if you are at risk of harming someone then being monitored to make sure you are on your meds isn’t a bad thing! Had the chick who shot up my office been monitored….there would be one awesome lady still alive to raise her daughter and a lot less scared people walking around! I hope NONE of you ever has to live through Post Traumatic Stress Syndrome!!!! I have empathy for people who suffer depression; I suffered from it for months after living through the shootings! Luckily I snapped out of it without the use of meds, thanks to the support of my family and friends!
Mental health is a tough one….. I have friends who are on meds and I have watched them with their meds. They start to feel real good and then they think…”Why do I need to take meds, I feel fine?” SO then they stop taking them….fortunately for my friends they just experience anxiety & mood swings and are not harmful to anyone but themselves. I have learned to see the signs and I am the first to ask them if they stopped taking their meds. Sometimes they are mean when I ask them, but I care enough to ask them and insist that they go back on their meds!
That’s my two cents! |
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Lyddia
Space Cowboy
Joined: 31 Dec 2006
Posts: 162
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| Posted: Thu Jan 11, 2007 5:14 am Post subject: |
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| Little Linds wrote: | | I don't think that just because you are "unfit for society" based on someone else's definition you should be locked up. I think if you know you need help, it should be available to you by choice. |
Little Linds,
The issue with most who are plauged with Mental Health problems is that they don't think that they have a problem. It is a hard to get help for a problem, if you don't think you have one.
( I am up so freaking early cause one of your brother's friends called here at 3am!! Grrrrrrrrrrrrrr) |
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Little Linds
Hybrid
Joined: 31 Dec 2006
Posts: 76
Location: Salt Lake City
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| Posted: Thu Jan 11, 2007 6:23 pm Post subject: |
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| Lyddia wrote: | | Little Linds wrote: | | I don't think that just because you are "unfit for society" based on someone else's definition you should be locked up. I think if you know you need help, it should be available to you by choice. |
Little Linds,
The issue with most who are plauged with Mental Health problems is that they don't think that they have a problem. It is a hard to get help for a problem, if you don't think you have one.
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As with your example...the lady who shot up your office had previous "meltdowns" and people knew she had mental issues. I think it's like striking out. You should get a chance, but one time you mess up, you should then be monitored. |
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test badger
A snake, a snake, a scary scary snake
Joined: 31 Dec 2006
Posts: 224
Location: the lab (SLC Utah)
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| Posted: Fri Jan 12, 2007 1:56 pm Post subject: |
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| Little Linds wrote: | | Lyddia wrote: | | Little Linds wrote: | | I don't think that just because you are "unfit for society" based on someone else's definition you should be locked up. I think if you know you need help, it should be available to you by choice. |
Little Linds,
The issue with most who are plauged with Mental Health problems is that they don't think that they have a problem. It is a hard to get help for a problem, if you don't think you have one.
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As with your example...the lady who shot up your office had previous "meltdowns" and people knew she had mental issues. I think it's like striking out. You should get a chance, but one time you mess up, you should then be monitored. |
Actually, that is pretty much how it works. But most people get way more than just one chance. And because of the lack of funding (and of course concern for human rights and personal choice), people often do slip through the cracks until something serious happens.
Have you worked in mental health, Lyddia?  You've got a lot of insight into the workings of our m.h. system.
I agree Lyddia; one of the biggest problems I see with the people I work with is going off of medications. For some reason, when people start to feel better, they begin to think they don't need those meds anymore. And things usually go downhill from there. Of course I'm not talking about people with dysthymia or adjustment disorders (temporary mental issues that often self-correct), but the more serious major depression, bipolar, psychotic disorders, etc. (If you know someone in that category, and they want to try going off their meds, they should talk with their doctor and do it under their supervision. Then if things go badly, they can correct it before it gets really bad.)
And since I find myself back on this rant (sorry), can I just say one more thing: METH IS BAD NEWS. If you already have mental issues, it will make them worse. If you've still got a healthy, fresh brain, meth will burn big holes in it. Literally. And yes, meth can make an otherwise healthy person look exactly like someone with uncontrolled paranoid schizophrenia. FOREVER. Tell all your friends: it's not worth it. Unless you enjoy hearing voices, thinking the guys in black are coming for you, being irritable and violent, and you want to lose all your friends and family and possibly your life. And maybe even get locked up for awhile.
I'm sorry about your friend, Lyddia. Most people with major mental illness are just like anyone who has any other medical condition. They're good people, and many can manage the illness and live a pretty normal life with a little help. It's those who demonstrate they can't, and who show disregard for life, who may need extra support from our civil system. |
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blue
Space Cadet
Joined: 02 Jan 2007
Posts: 37
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| Posted: Fri Jan 12, 2007 5:12 pm Post subject: |
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| I know it sounds romantic the idea of being mentally disturbed, covered in your own feces, smelling of urine, giving handjobs at restrooms to get a meth hit, and perping on the occasional schoolchild, but somepeople really don't belong in polite society. If you want they can move next door to you though . I myself would rather go back to the pre reagan deinsttionalization days. |
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DarkMonkeyGirl
Hybrid
Joined: 09 Jan 2007
Posts: 60
Location: OOtah
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| Posted: Sat Jan 13, 2007 12:45 am Post subject: |
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| Who wouldn't want that? My ex's mom was a schizo but she liked living on the street and writing bad poetry so they just left her to her own doing. Not that she wanted help. She was an English teacher at UVSC. Very smart. Very insane (well I guess there's a fine line between intelligience and insanity). I thought she was cool. Then again she wasn't a danger to herself or others. Anywho... |
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Lyddia
Space Cowboy
Joined: 31 Dec 2006
Posts: 162
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| Posted: Sat Jan 13, 2007 12:56 am Post subject: |
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[[/quote]
Have you worked in mental health, Lyddia? You've got a lot of insight into the workings of our m.h. system.
[/quote]
I have been around people with mental health issues my whole life. I can spot them a block away and have just always been there to chat with them.
When I was young I wanted to be a youth conselor. I grew up in a poor area with lots of crime and kids at risk. Many of them ended up mental from all the drugs that they took to escape the mean streets.
After living through that shooting and getting over post traumatic stress syndrome it gave me a new respect for the mentally ill.
My best friends suffer from OCD, manic depression and one is bi-polar.
There are days that I wish I could just find something to cure what troubles them!!!
And it is true...there is NO money out there to help them and they tell me that their meds are not cheap! |
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test badger
A snake, a snake, a scary scary snake
Joined: 31 Dec 2006
Posts: 224
Location: the lab (SLC Utah)
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| Posted: Sat Jan 13, 2007 2:24 am Post subject: |
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| blue wrote: | | I know it sounds romantic the idea of being mentally disturbed, covered in your own feces, smelling of urine, giving handjobs at restrooms to get a meth hit, and perping on the occasional schoolchild, but somepeople really don't belong in polite society. |
QFT, Blue. (Did I just say that?!)
BTW, manic depression = Bipolar disorder, nowadays.
Here's the thing about MMI (major mental illness). Chances are if you have one, you're going to qualify for Medicaid (here in UT). And if you do, your meds are going to be SUPER cheap. Like $3 per med, per month. Even if you can't get Caid, the drug companies have programs for those who can't afford meds that make them free for the first year, at least. And even if you couldn't get that, most docs give lotsa samples. So the "I can't afford to stay on my meds" argument doesn't really hold water, ya know? It's really a question of motivation and priorities.
Also, if you're looking for therapy or substance abuse treatment here in Salt Lake, you're in luck. We've got tons of sliding-scale and ultra low-cost affordable programs. You just have to know where to look. Compared to other states, we're a gold mine of resources. That's why other states put their mentally ill people on Greyhound and ship 'em over to us. They call it "bus therapy". No joke.  |
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Lyddia
Space Cowboy
Joined: 31 Dec 2006
Posts: 162
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| Posted: Sat Jan 13, 2007 9:23 am Post subject: |
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Wow....
Please PM me some other info. My friend who I thought was Manic and Bi Polar....well she is broke and can't get her meds half of the time. I would love to share some info with her....
Also her son is a big mess and could use some help.
The two of them off meds is a scary thing! |
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test badger
A snake, a snake, a scary scary snake
Joined: 31 Dec 2006
Posts: 224
Location: the lab (SLC Utah)
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| Posted: Tue Jan 16, 2007 4:02 pm Post subject: |
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| PM heading your way now... |
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